I have pretty much covered this topic but sweetbabycheezits You clearly admit they haven't put 1975 as the actual date for Armageddon but now are saying they have learned not to say it? that doesn't make sense. It was either publically declared as the date for Armageddon or it wasn't. The one thing witnessess do is put everything in writing and this isn't in their publications as a date for Armageddon. Which is the accusation I believe from you?
Concerned JW
JoinedPosts by Concerned JW
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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225
A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
So far it has been agreed that mistakes can happen among God's people.
That Jehovah's witnesses didn't set 1975 as the date for Armageddon.
Noroomforgeorge brings some new points. Blood law that didn't end with the dietary laws of the jews, Why? because it wasn't about diet but the point that blood belongs to God. Pedophilia is one you need to discuss with the Catholics. Being well dressed for worship to Jehovah is a bible principle. We go with whatever is the current best dress of the country we reside in, which is fair. Baptism is not a mantra or spell you repeat certain words but the Act itself done in the name of them hense why in Acts the words used only refer to Jesus in some of the baptisms yet clearly spirit power and Jehovah were involved. "Generation" is a bible prophecy which are only seen fully accurately on fulfillment. It's unrealistic to expect them to be perfectly understood until after they are fulfilled but we still have to use them. And none of these are biblical reasons why Jehovah's witnesses wouldn't be God's people they only reflect personal opinions of ex-Jws.
Other religions don't tend to change their doctrines or understandings they tend to avoid biblical refinement. Which is why they are still worshiping a centuries old roman/greco trinity God
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
What are we talking about then Outlaw? if you are agreeing with me that they didn't say it was the actual date of Armageddon?
Sizemilk the awake is showing it as a hope not a teaching! thats the point I made.
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
Are you saying this topic is about listing JW mistakes? rather than my saying "mistakes will happen" that you quoted in the header? If that is the case I can add nothing further since that is my point! These mistakes proof nothing except that we are the imperfect people Jehovah says we are and they are not a valid attack on Jehovah's witnesses as Jehovah's chosen people.
Outlaw 1975 was the date for the 6000 creative days and I want you to show me one pre-75 publication saying it will be the actual date for Armageddon there is a difference!
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
Sizemilk 1975 was the date for the 6000 years of God's creative days. It was never an official teaching for Armageddon in fact many were cautioned not to get their hopes up. You won't find it even as an understanding for Armageddon in our publications. It is only mentioned as a vague hope and acknowledge that many ran ahead of the bible in that respect. So 1975 (as a date for Armageddon) wasn't announced as per requirement of your accusation. If you read you own information it clearly shows this.
The Bible requirement of God's people is that they listen to and do what is in Jehovah's word despite being imperfect and liable to make mistakes.
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Feeling a bit alienated
by factfinder ini notice mostly everyone at jwn was a "born-in".
i actually chose to become a witness.
i was born and raised jewish but by the time i was 15 i had lost interest in judaism and stopped practicing it.
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Concerned JW
You make some good points but we are warned in the Bible that these sort of mistakes can happen and we see examples of them in the bible itself in thessalonians they also anticipated Jesus's return but they were cautioned not condemned. The Bible gives no scriptures that say we would have perfect understanding it shows the opposite. That we will need refining right up until the end (see Dan 11:35 and Daniel 12:10) That we will constantly need to refer back to the bible for "setting us straight" 2 tim 3:16 when these things happen.
The mark of God's people isn't that we get things wrong but that we are refinable despite this and so Jehovah allows us to see his truths. You show me one other Religion with the sort of truth Jehovah's Witnesses have had revealed to them by Jehovah? They don't even use God's name never mind recognise him.
It is you that have the unrealistic expectation that they won't need to be refined. Yes once we celebrated Christmas and used a cross like the majority of Christendom still do but once we realised the bible condemned these we stopped them. That is the act of biblical refining in action. Indeed a good example for you to bring up.
Jesus said "this Generation will by no means pass away" as prophecy for us to read and use so even if we get wrong 100 times that is not the issue. We are meant to use Bible prophecy even if we make mistakes with it and need refining on them. Prophecy fullfilment is only seen clearly after it has been fulfilled even the jews needed Jesus to explain what prophecies he fulfilled.
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
InterestedOne this topic is whether mistakes are a valid point concerning Jehovah's people. Actually you all agree with me that you don't expect Jehovah's people to be perfect at this time. You are right your question was more of a red herring rather than loaded one trying to deflect me down the route of examining mistakes.
I have yet to hear one valid reason why any of these points invalidates Jehovah's witnesses as God's people. If you accept that mistakes can happen within God's people why then do these mistakes make you leave the witnesses or continue to stay away?
Sweetbabycheezits the articles you quote make the same point that I do concluding that certain prophecies maybe fulfilled is not a sin it is the type of mistakes/errors that are expected to happen and would need refining and do get refined constantly. They are only current understandings on bible prophecy.
What isn't missing from Jehovah's Witnesses is that they do have Jehovah's truth to a degree that makes other religions look hopelessly archaic and blinkered in comparison.
Punkofnice (sorry I got your name wrong) You are missing my point. We have to teach the bible truths to others as we were taught. It is a continual process from person to person and the Bible is there to be used and to keep us straight if we start going away from those truths. That is why I also brought up the example of Philip and the Eunuch who clearly knew the bible but needed Philip to explain it to him.
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
607 is where the bible chronology conflicts with one source of secular information so it is really an attack on the bible.
Punkoface you are right it is 2 tim not 1 tim. But if you are going to use context, use the whole context. Please look at verse 14 "but as for you, continue in what you learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you have learned it." We are taught the correct meanings from others using the bible. The principle of philip and the eunuch shows this as well.
Randcam like I said is nitpicking, hearsay and making a something (which even if it is true) into a wrongdoing when it isn't.
Are these sort of nitpicking manufactured mistakes adequate reasons for leaving or staying away from Jehovah's people?
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
Interestedone Your question is clearly a loaded one. Asking me to identify mistakes is trying to make me accept the point I am contesting. Please address my point rather than throw loaded questions at me.
Punkofnice the randcam issue is a very manufactured one which even if all the accusations were correct (which I doubt) I wouldn't consider it a wrongdoing (the randcam was possibly donated shares to a factory that made parts that could have been used in a tank how far removed is that?). There is a a measure of nitpicking with the majority if items you mentioned. Hense why I said "perceived". Some are actually attacking what God's people are supposed to do. We are given the bible for correction 1 tim 3:16 among other things so that shows that mistakes will happen that we will need to be "corrected" what you call "flip-flops" is this bible principle in action especially on bible prophecy. I would be more worried if they didn't allow for mistakes to be corrected when it is revealed that they are incorrect biblically.
And again Punkofnice you like interestedone are trying to get me to defend mistakes you perceive are wrong. Does the bible expect and say that God's people as a congregation or organisation will be mistake free?
MrDarkknight please explain what higher standard you expected? We are either perfect or imperfect there is no middle-ground. We also function under the constant pull of the flesh hense Galations 5 is very useful on understanding this point and being warned too. gal 5:15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."
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A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."
by InterestedOne inin the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
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Concerned JW
I apologise I should maybe have said uses percieved mistakes as a reason to "continue to stay away" because the list you have just used are learned ones from ex-JWs and most aren't even true and are very spurious in origin like the randcam one which has being doing the "circuit" (forgive the pun) for years. You are an ex-elder but by simply using the bible which itself is the spirit inspired word means you are using spirit guidance. Thats why they always use the bible at the meetings especially focussing on the principle of one scripture.
I have no problem with the organisational structure of witnesses it is very biblical. The principle of Heb 13:17 shows this, they have the authority. Whatever failtures you saw would have been from personal imperfection seeping in and that is why they still have to render an "account"
The "do not associate" scriptures are very solid I'm surprised you challenge that point?